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X Amish Atheist

~ fighting dogma from behind the lines…

X Amish Atheist

Category Archives: Other

Student Einstein Trumps Atheist Philosophy Professor

24 Tuesday Apr 2012

Posted by xamishatheist in Other

≈ 1 Comment

Tags

appeal to authority, atheism, belief, death, einstein, faith, good and evil, professor, skepticism, student


There are quite a few variations of this story about Einstein beating his atheist philosophy professor in a philosophical argument. Here is one variation of the story. I’ll add my own thoughts after it. My commentary and counter arguments are rather extensive and I apologize for the length of this post. I do hope it clears up some of the myth surrounding this story.

Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Professor : Is GOD good ?
Student : Sure.
Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?
Student : Yes.
Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?
(Student was silent.)
Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good?
Student : Yes.
Professor: Is satan good ?
Student : No.
Professor: Where does satan come from ?
Student : From … GOD …
Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student : Yes.
Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?
Student : Yes.
Professor: So who created evil ?
(Student did not answer.)
Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor: So, who created them ?
(Student had no answer.)
Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?
Student : No, sir.
Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?
Student : No , sir.
Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.
Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.
Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Professor: Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
Professor: Yes.
Student : No, sir. There isn’t.
(The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)
Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.
(There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)
Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?
Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?
Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)
Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
(The class was in uproar.)
Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?
(The class broke out into laughter. )
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
(The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)
Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.
Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.
By the way, that student was EINSTEIN.


I have a lot of things to say about this tale, so many, in fact, that I’m going to break it up into parts and sub-parts. First, I’m going to critique the presentation, and then I’ll critique the philosophical arguments.

The Presentation

Historically False

This was not Einstein, that’s a myth. This is a tale that has been making its rounds on the internet for quite a few years. Over the years, parts of it change but the overall idea is still the same – Einstein trumps an atheist professor’s philosophical argument for disproof of God.

See: http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

There is another historically false claim – that Einstein was a Christian. That is just wishful thinking.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein%27s_religious_views

Fallacious Appeals to Authority

Whoever invented this tale used Einstein’s name in an attempt to add intellectual authority to the tale. An appeal to authority can be a valid argument tactic but in this case it is fallacious because a consensus does not exist among legitimate experts on the matter under discussion. Even if the story actually was true (it has been established that it is not) this appeal to authority would be a fallacious tactic.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

The appeal to authority that I’m referring to above is the idea that Einstein would endorse the specific arguments put forth in the tale. There is also another implicit appeal to authority – that Einstein endorsed Christianity. This is fallacious for the simple reason that it is historically false as has been established earlier.

Psychological Manipulation Tactics

This tale portrays the atheist philosophy professor as being ignorant and easy to trap in philosophical arguments. No professor of philosophy (atheist or Christian) is as dumb as the one portrayed here.

The tale-writer is a psychological manipulator that utilizes the human tendency for conformity (See Bandwagon effect). Notice how the tale-writer has included an entire group of people (a classroom) and notice their reactions during the dialogue between student and professor;

  • “The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.”
  • “There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.”
  • “The class was in uproar.”
  • “The class broke out into laughter.”
  • “The room was silent…”

It is obvious that the tale-writer used the “crowd” as a conformity tactic. I mean, who doesn’t want to agree with the majority?

These psychological manipulation tactics employed by the tale-writer are intended to persuade a reader to take the side of the student. Such persuasion tactics go beyond that which an objective presenter of the philosophical arguments would use. The tale-writer did not present the philosophical arguments in an objective manner, but rather, lies about the origin of the tale, makes fallacious appeals to authority, and attempts to psychologically manipulate the reader.

The Philosophical Arguments

The major points of this tale are its two philosophical claims;

  • Evil was not so much created by God as it is an example of an absence of God
  • Even scientists have faith

Unjustified Claim: Evil is the Absence of God

On the surface, the argument that evil is just the absence of God seems to be compelling based on the given analogies. However, let us look closer…

Arguing that cold is just the absence of heat, and darkness is just the absence of light, is an argument of semantics. It is not how we think of our world in our day to day lives.

When we think about temperature, we think of a spectrum ranging from low temperature (cold) to high temperature (hot). To argue that heat is just the absence of cold is to disregard the definition of the two as they are used in natural language.

When we think about light, we think of a spectrum ranging from bright light (light) to low light (dark). To argue that darkness is just the absence of light is to disregard the definition of the two as they are used in natural language.

Despite the two arguments about cold/heat and light/darkness being just arguments of semantics – they are logically valid if we all agree to constrain our normal definitions of the terms.

They are valid because temperature and light are physical, quantifiable, phenomena in our universe. Temperature is a quantifiable property of matter that can be precisely measured with scientific instruments. Light is electromagnetic radiation that can be detected with scientific instruments, and many of its properties can be measured with precision. The point is – these are real, physical, and measurable phenomena of our universe.

Good and evil are not. Good and evil cannot be detected with scientific instruments. Good and evil cannot be quantified with scientific instruments.

It is my counter claim that good and evil are not physical phenomena. Rather, they are our subjective assessments of the effects of certain events. It makes no more sense to claim that evil is the absence of good than it does to make the claim that good is the absence of evil.

Overall, this is a specious argument that benefits neither side of the debate.

Unjustified Claim: Everybody has Faith

Here I will not attempt to disprove the existence of God but merely to demonstrate the difference between religious faith and rationally justified beliefs, thereby showing the final claim of this tale to be unjustified as well.

To make the claim that religious faith has the same epistemological value as rationally justified beliefs demonstrates a complete ignorance of the scientific method.

The belief that persons have brains is supported by the following scientific evidence:

1) The fact that every person that has ever been scientifically examined in the necessary manner has been found to have a brain.

2) The brain is the only known object that can cause the complex behavior of persons.

3) There is no evidence to suggest that there are persons with no brains.

While these facts do not deductively prove that any specific person (that has not been scientifically examined) does have a brain, it does constitute a rationally justified belief that is fully supported by Occam’s razor.

Religious faith, on the other hand, is a set of beliefs that is not supported by scientific evidence.

To equate religious faith with scientific beliefs is to blatantly redefine our commonly accepted definitions of these terms and it is an insult to intelligent beings everywhere.

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It’s Just a Theory

17 Tuesday Apr 2012

Posted by xamishatheist in Other

≈ Leave a comment

Tags

big bang, epistemology, evolution, theory


Many of the less educated Christians when faced with the onslaught of a scientific theory that contradicts their beliefs, whether it’s the Big Bang theory or evolutionary theory, shout back with, “It’s just a theory!” This, of course, is an egregious abomination onto language and epistemology.

First of all, the term “theory” when used as scientists use it, is quite different from the definition ascribed to it by the layman. The layman would define “theory” as ‘a possible explanation for something’. Scientists have a word that fits that definition too. It is “hypothesis”. When a scientist talks about an idea that is a possible explanation for something, he or she uses the term “hypothesis” because “theory” has quite a different definition in the fields of science.

A scientific theory is a bunch of confirmed hypotheses all tied together in a manner that can be used to explain and make predictions relevant to the phenomenon under question. A theory is the closest thing to “proof” that seekers of knowledge about nature can hope to reach.

The Christian may go on to argue, how can scientists be so sure that evolution or the big bang are true? Nobody was there to see it. The Christian will argue adamantly that you can’t prove that something is true without somebody having been there to see it and verify it.

It is at this point that I ask the Christian what 1000 plus 1000 is. Well, duh – it’s 2000.Then I ask if they have ever actually counted 1000 of something, another thousand of something, put it all together and counted everything again to verify that it really is 2000. Well of course not but that’s just ridiculous.

No, I point out. Arithmetic is just a theory – a logical framework resting ultimately on pure assumptions. Arithmetic has never proven itself wrong so we continue believing it to be a valid theory. Natural selection has never been proven wrong (and all it takes is one thing out of place), so we continue believing it to be a valid theory.

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The Fear of Death

17 Tuesday Apr 2012

Posted by xamishatheist in Other

≈ 4 Comments

Tags

atheism, Christianity, convert, death, deathbed, deathbed conversion, God, Titanic 3D


The other night some friends and I went out and watched Titanic 3D. My girlfriend loves the movie. I thought the movie was well-written, well-directed, well-acted, and totally depressing.

It was depressing to watch all those people dying toward the end of the movie and it really made me wonder what I would be feeling if I was in their situation. I mean think about it. What would be going through your mind if you knew death was imminent? Would you pray to whatever God you believe in? Would that provide peace for you? Would you be able to die without that mental anguish that I envision?

In one scene, there is a minister praying and the people around him are reaching out to him, touching him, and holding onto him as the Titanic sinks. In that moment I felt the comfort those people were getting from that. If I was in that situation I might even be reaching out to the minister, despite my lack of belief in God.

Death is feared. I think that when a person contemplates imminent death, the emotional response is so powerful that it can completely overwhelm any rational output of the mind. A powerfully emotional movie like the Titanic allows some of us to experience in a small way what imminent death might feel like. After watching the movie I realized that even a rational mind like my own could be overwhelmed by the emotions and trigger a deathbed conversion.

I remember hearing, as an argument against atheism, the stories of atheists that suddenly convert to Christianity on their death beds. As the stories go, the atheists mock God until almost the very end when they suddenly start praying to him and begging for forgiveness.

Those stories are at most anecdotes, and many are no more than myths (particularly the one about Darwin). It wouldn’t surprise me, however, if that kind of thing actually happened on a regular basis. I imagine myself on my deathbed and I think there’s a chance that even I might do something like that. I think it will take a lot of courage to face death without falling into the wishful thinking of Christianity.

However, I disagree that this is evidence for the existence of God, as many Christians would like to claim, or proof that all atheists know deep down that there really is a God. Quite the contrary. The only thing that deathbed conversions are evidence for, is fear of death.

Religion provides an answer for one very powerful metaphysical question – what happens when we die? Christianity, for one, gives you the belief that you’re immortal in a sense. Being an atheist, I believe technology is our only hope for immortality.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the the deathbed conversion was found to be more likely among atheists that left religion than among atheists that have never been religious. The claim that deathbed conversions are caused by ‘all atheists know deep down that there really is a God’ could be tested statistically. If those atheists that left religion had deathbed conversions at a rate significantly higher than those atheists that were never religious, it could be evidence that deathbed conversions are caused in part by a person’s previous religious experiences rather than something that all atheists know deep down.

To end this post on a lighter note I will close with a deathbed story about Voltaire – the famous philosopher. When asked by a priest to renounce Satan and turn to God, Voltaire allegedly said, “Now is no time to be making new enemies.“

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The Creature on my Lawn

16 Monday Apr 2012

Posted by xamishatheist in Other

≈ Leave a comment

Tags

delusion, invisible, monster


There is a creature sitting on my lawn.

There is? But I don’t see a thing.

Of course not. The creature is invisible. You can’t see it with your naked eyes nor can it be detected with any sort of optical equipment.

But I don’t hear anything of it either.

Of course not, the creature never makes a sound.

Well, then, what kind of creature is it?

It’s a rather large creature, about six feet tall and two feet wide.

Well then, if it’s that large I should be able to go outside and feel around for it until I find it.

No, that’s quite impossible. The creature lacks all mass whatsoever. You wouldn’t be able to feel it nor would you be able to detect it with any sort of seismic sensor or even a statistical analysis of the movements of air particles in the area.

Ah, it must be one of those new-fangled energy creatures. Let me get out my magnetometer.

Don’t bother.

How in the world am I supposed to detect this creature?

Oh that’s quite impossible. The creature is completely undetectable by any scientific instrument or method now or that will ever be made.

How can you possibly know about it then?

It talks to me.

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Atheists are Ignorant

15 Sunday Apr 2012

Posted by xamishatheist in Other

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

atheist, delusion, God, ignorance


Atheists are an ignorant bunch.

Atheists don’t know for sure how life began on Earth. They hypothesize a number of ideas such as abiogenesis – the idea that life sprang from an inorganic primordial soup and panspermia – the idea that life was brought here from another place in the universe. Christians know exactly where life comes from – God created it.

Atheists don’t know for sure how long the universe will last. Some think it will end in a Big Crunch at some unknown point in the distant future. Others think it will end in a Big Bounce, again at some point in the distant future. Christians know that the end is near and that it will be caused by God’s hands.

Atheists aren’t sure where the universe came from although many suggest that it came from nothing. Christians know exactly where the universe came from – God created it.

Atheists aren’t sure why there is something rather than nothing. Christians know that it’s God’s plan for there to be something rather than nothing.

Atheists don’t know the answer to, “Why are we here?” and some of them will go as far as claiming the question is meaningless because it anthropomorphizes a natural process. Christians know exactly why we are here – we are here to prepare ourselves for the afterlife.

Atheists know very few of the answers to the big questions in life. Christians know almost all of them.

Atheists may be ignorant but at least they’re not delusional.

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A Discussion About me on Facebook

15 Sunday Apr 2012

Posted by xamishatheist in Other

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Tags

Facebook


Today I discovered that a Facebook Group called Mission to Amish People has been discussing me. Here is the discussion;

I would like to comment on several of these posts so here goes;

One man says, “So, I see atheists can get lonely…. Lonely for what? This man just exposed an emptiness in his heart. Because he acknowledges it, and asks for something to fill it…”

It is true that I get lonely but it’s not a secret longing for faith. I feel lonely because I don’t have friends that share my beliefs. How would you feel if you were the only Christian surrounded by atheists?

Now there is another issue I have that you’ll be happy to learn about – I suffer from existential depression at times. Religion pretends to answer a lot of metaphysical questions such as ‘why are we here’ and ‘what happens after we die’. As an atheist, some of these questions are left unanswered and others are answered in ways that I don’t like. However, the truth means so much to me that I can live with the depression that comes with it.

Another person says, “I wondered too why you are exposing others to this site , I got shivers reading just a few of the blogs , decided not to comment on the blog , just pray for him …I also think we need to pray for the unstable ones who read this blog that they wouldn’t be swayed by reading it …..”

See what I mean about Christians thinking atheists are pure evil? I guess I can’t really blame them since from their point of view, we atheists are trying to get people that are on the path to being eternally happy and shoving them down the path of eternal suffering. I guess we pretty much fit the definition of “Satan” for them.

Another person says, “It takes a lot of faith to be an atheist. (yes, that is meant to be ironic). I’m sure they don’t see it as faith…but it really is. A false faith.”

This is the premise for a fairly common argument against atheism but it’s completely invalid. It is invalid because atheism is a belief based on reasoned arguments. Faith is not.

The last poster says, “…I suspect that he has received enough condemnation already…”

I could give that guy a hug. Finally, someone with the ability to look beyond their own feelings on the subject and see that I am a real person.

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Is God Evil?

12 Thursday Apr 2012

Posted by xamishatheist in Other, The Conversion

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

dream, evil, God, hell


Visualizing the Amish God as evil – as something I never wanted to associate with, was helpful in my transition from a questioner to a full-blown atheist.

Here is an appropriate little graphic that I put together from a variety of images I found online.

God's Dream About Hell

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Are There any Other Ex-Amish Atheists Out There?

12 Thursday Apr 2012

Posted by xamishatheist in Other, The Amish

≈ 55 Comments

Tags

amish, atheist


I am a formerly Amish atheist. Life can get a little lonely when there’s no other person that you know of that shares your background and your skepticism. This post is a shout-out to ex-Amish atheists everywhere. We need to get together, socialize, and support each other.

If you’re an ex-Amish atheist or agnostic, please comment on this page so we can get to know each other. I have also started a group on Atheist Nexus for people like us. Please come and join me;

http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/ex-amish-atheists

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